This interview with Eddie McLafferty, convenor, and Jack Gray, Chairman of the Shop Stewards Committee, at the Plessey Argyle works is an abridged version of an interview which originally appeared in the Glasgow local paper "The Word". MPs. That puts the police in a bit of a spot.
Press coverage of UCS has tended to overshadow the other great workers' struggle in the West of Scotland-the occupation of the Plessey Argyle works at Alexandria. Word reporters went to find out the facts-and very unsavoury facts they are. For Plessey's takeover and abandonment of the Argyle works within little more than a year has been one of the most blatant examples of capitalist confidence trickery in recent years. -How did Plessey come to take over here in the first place?
EMeL: It's been as we've quoted, they got £3m. to take over. They've denied this: they got money to take over Ferranti and Airmech, but they say it wasn't for the takeover of this factory. The Labour government was in when Plessey took over. They paid £650,000 for this plant, complete with all the stocks and everything; we feel they got quite enough for that. And they had work; they had all the manufacturing contract for the Mk24 torpedo through this takeover.
We feel Plessey took this place for two reasons: 1. to do away with a competitor in the torpedo field, and 2. to make a profit from selling the factory. They took over part of the factory in May 1970 and by January had taken over the whole plant. We cooperated with the management for some time. But from the time wasting and other things going on, it soon became clear to us in the union that they had no idea of carrying it on. For example, there was procedure agreement. We started negotiations; they took six months and the agreement was signed a week or two before the closure. We had a lot of arguments with the company: for instance they were bringing in machine buyers. We protested. They claimed they were going to modernise. But they were looking at stuff that wasn't obsolete. They wanted to sell the complete machinery, but they now say only five machines out. We haven't been letting metal out: they sold it to an American company. A man came round from it and gave us £5 for the fighting fund, and he told us we could levy every truck that went out, but he's not on. —What are the aims of your occupation now? EMeL: We've made it quite clear we believe they intend moving machinery out. We have information from Ilford, for example memos requesting information on whether machines can be got out to South Africa. We have full cooperation from Ilford: they re blacking all the stuff from here. We want a meeting of stewards from the whole Plessey combine to get the same throughout it. -How come you've not done that sooner? EMeL: It's taken time to organise. There was a coordinating committee but they fell through. Illord is supposed to be organising it now, but if they don't we'll see about it. JG: You see Plessey has 80,000 workers; it's been done through the rank and file, and it takes time to get addresses, etc. But we've had contact with Beeston in Nottingham. -What's the most important thing right now? IG: We've got to have solidarity. If the pledges from England come out, we can't lose. Ilford has blacked everything from this works. If we can get the general meeting, we'll back the company into a corner. Their ultimate intention is to move machinery to South Africa and Portugal. We've had AEU support. The District Organiser had a stoppage the other Thursday. We had support from Rootes, Babcox, Renfrew, and what's very encouraging. from the distilleries, UCS and Albion too. There were 7,000 on the demonstration: the biggest in this area since the '30s. This area has a left-wing past, you know. There were quite a few communists. This is the last big factory employing a pool of skilled engineers... there's no alternatives. There were 1,300 men employed here before Plessey took over. 700 have been laid off through Plessey. Our case is different from UCS, you know. We're no employees, we re trespassers. The Authorities are scared of coming in here, because under Scottish trespass laws we can't be caught unless we do damage. And we let the factory security boys in to take care of security. One of the first things we got onto the District Council. They c supported us. So did Dumbarton Council and -How would the local police feel if they have to throw you out?
JG:: They'd have to come over the fence. And they'll have to open the gate, they're not getting the key. We've taken a decision to have passive resistance, we'll all just lie out there and they'll have to carry us out. We think the police will come in. But we want it on our terms. If we're to be moved it's got to be-because we're stopping the factory being dismantled or stuff being moved out. Another thing is that this company always has somebody from the Ministry of Defence or high in the forces on the board. The last one was Sir John Harding. Now it's Sir Charles Elworthy, former Marshal of the RAF and on the Chief of Staff. He was responsible for going into N. Ireland. Mountbatten is supposed to be a big shareholder. And they're always doing stuff for S. Africa and Vietnam. -What do you think of the press coverage you've had?
JG: Very poor nationally. An obvious attempt to play down this type of action. EMcL: We're disappointed with the press. They've been playing it down. For instance, the Daily Record only 2-3 lines. There's something wrong, maybe it's a combined decision. The local press covered us, but wouldn't support. the Express covered us with a hostile editorial. The people who have given coverage are the Workers Press, Socialist Worker, The Red Mole, The Militant. But not The Morning Star, and we're pretty disappointed about that. A councillor here contacted them and told them we would talk to them, but they haven't been. —What political lessons have you learnt from the occupation?
EMcL: All the socialist press have been asking this question. The left-wing movement felt we were politically motivated. But if they talk to the lads, they find not. The only political motive is a feeling that this government has to go. Whether it's over the Common Market or unemployment or the Industrial Relations Bill, it must be brought down. Its policies are totally against the working class.
But the majority of the men don't want politics. Just look at that Union Jack out there. Someone brought in a red flag and about 50 said they'd walk out if we put that up. It's their upbringing, through the Express, the Record, ete. that men get frightened off communism and nationalisation and things like that-of the words, I mean.
They're doing what the socialists say, but they don't want to be politically involved. -How's morale?
JG: Pretty good. We think we've knocked it off. What's coming over is that there's no place else to go. They re enjoying themselves meeting their mates, etc. It's better than walking the streets. EMcL: The company's idea is to wait us out, but we re satisfied with the numbers, 100-120 in every day. Now we're also going down to the Labour Exchange every day to canvass others. A lot say they'll come up. The management think they'll sicken us, but they won't. We could get more support if we let everybody in, but we're confining it to ex-workers.
The police have said to us, "Look, you want publicity. How about letting us come up and carry out?" But we say come and get us. We know the factory, we've got our plans. And local cops don't fancy the job. All the factories say they'll come out if we're evicted. —What are your plans if you're thrown out? EMeL: If we're thrown out we'll carry on the fight picketing outside the gate to stop lorries, etc. In that case we would accept outside support. We could get 7,000 outside the gate. JG: We'll make them fight every inch from here to Dumbarton. -What about the viability position? EMcL: The company says the factory's not viable. This has been a complete confidence trick but they're pouring money into Harland and by the company. They've conned the press, government, local government and the TUs. They all put themselves out to get a new employer here. We feel the company never tried to make it viable. If they had and put their back in, they could have. Originally they claimed they could employ figures like 2,000 after 2 years, etc. This is precisely what Alexandria needs. But the management ran the factory like a crowd of Boy Scouts. There was no procedure or nothing. —What promises did the company make? EMcL: 1,000 employed in one year, in two years 2,000, expanding to 5,000 people. The company say the efficiency has been 25%. But for instance when you got a job you weren't getting the drawings, the tools, etc. And if you hit a snag, your superior would say just "Carry on, I'll be back." There was no organisation. They enticed toolmakers from other factories, using the trade unions, enticing them with promises of security for life. There were 60 toolmakers here, but no tooling programme. So there was no work for them. —What about connections in UCS?
JG: Some factories round here have offered to give half the UCS money, but we said, no, keep US the focal point. We can get if from them if we need it.
Our decision to occupy wasn't a result of UCS: our closure was announced first. The idea was born around July. We thought that even a handful of men, 30-40, could take the gates and hold them. On September 3rd we asked all the men to support a takeover of the gates: they had all just received their ex gratia payments. We allowed all those who didn't want to, to leave. In fact everybody agreed to take • part in the takeover of the gate, removing the management and the police and locking the gate, and then some left one by one. Then the following day many came back in. Especially men you wouldn't expect, older men or those who opposed the decision originally. We have 150-200 regulars now. It's through frustration and anger that the lads have taken this decision. What have we to lose? Just walking the streets. We feel it's time for all workers throughout Britain to take this action. We must show this Government we're not happy. -Can occupation be generalised in this way? JG: We've used the strike weapon for some time. Employers are learning how to handle it. Occupations and work-ins might well be more effective. -What about labour relations?
EMcL: I bent over backwards with them. I felt they were trying to make us go on strike. We realised they wanted us all out on strike so they could say industrial relations were too bad to keep the factory running. They were constantly pushing cases to the brink. But we never took the bait. -Anything else?
JG: All these closures, UCS, Plessey, Dundee, are making Scotland ready for revolution. They say they won't support lame ducks, Wolff's in Belfast just because of the political situation there. People won't go on taking it for ever.
EM cL: We had the tools, the personnel and the facilities to make the MK24 missile. We put the point to the government, to the minister for defence procurement, and he said it would be improper" to tell Plessey what to do. The government are able to do things to keep this factory open.
We want them to do them.
Bi-monthly theoretical journal of the International Marxist Group.
INTERNATIONAL is a 64-page journal which analyses in detail recent developments in Britain and other parts of the world. In Britain it represents the views of the Fourth International as well as its British section.
Latest INTERNATIONAL includes: 2 documents from Bolivia; The Dollar Crisis; The British Economy; Republicanism in Ireland.
Subs: £1 per annum; £2 airmail to Africa, Asia, Latin America, North America.
Name..
Address Send to INTERNATIONAL Subscriptions, 182 Pentonville Road, London N. 1. Single copy 15p + postage.
Georne Wilkie