In these brief interviews leaders of the Irish Republican movement explain the policy and strategy of their movement. Maurin De Burca is the joint secretary of Sinri Fein, the movement's political wing in the 26 counties, and Malachy McGurgan is the chairman of the 6-counties regional executive of the Republican Clubs.
INTERVIEW WITH MAIRIN DE BURCA 1. How would you describe the Republican Movement to someone who knew very little about it?
It's a traditional movement, and it's a new movement.
It is the old movement tor struggle against british imperialist oppression of Ireland, stemming from the Fonians and the Irish Republican Brotherhood. But today we realise that people who might be physically free might not be politically and culturally free.
Therefore we involve ourselves in the struggles of the people, supporting strikes, such as the cement strike; housing action in Dublin; we run advice bureaux where people can get help when faced with trouble from landlords, their employers, the state bureaucracy, etc. Our fish-in campaign attempts to break the monopoly of overseas absentee landlords and fishing clubs over the tisning rignts on iris rivers and coughs in many cases small farmers farm land through which fishing rivers run, but are forbidden to fish them. We organise mass illegal fishing to highlight this. Recently in Dublin we discovered that an Archbishop owned a private park for which he sold keys to selected tamilies at four pounds a time. We got hold of a key and passed out copies to slum families, then we organised a picnic and sports day in the park, which everyone but the Archbishop enjoyed thoroughly. In the North of course we have been in the civil rights struggle since it started.
We are trying to do today what we did in the '30s, at the time of the Republican congress. Tight Tor national unity and independence, but in a socialist context. 2. What other organisations in İreland do you see as allies, and what forms of cooperation do you have with them?
we cooperate with many poole, Tor instance we work with many members of the Labour Party in the housing action campaign, but as individuals, not as a party. We can cooperate on limited objectives with the Communist Party of Ireland, although many of our younger members consider that inev are a very conservative party, almost reactionary in fact; nevertheless we can work with mem, particulary win te vouch group the Connolly Youth. The Irish Communist Organisation were active in the housing struggle for a while, but then thev demanded inat we expel members or tne Labour Party from the campaign; when the campaign retused. tnev walkeo out. we work win te babie League, particularly for civil rights for the Gaelicspeaking areas. We work ofcourse with the Civil Rights Association. We co-operated with a number of organisations in the Cement Strike Ad-Hoc Committee, to support the strike. We work with local fishing clubs on our fish-ins. And we are involved in a united campaion acainst entry in tne Common Market, which is a very important issue here. in snort we will work wit anyone who is going f the same direction or will go part of the way on any issue with us. 3. What is your attitude towards Marxism and Marxists?
I'll speak for myselt on this; there are a lot of people in the movement who are Marxists. Personally I find that it is too doctrinaite; I won't hold with any theory that binds one to a rigid course of action.
4. What is your attitude towards struggles in the Third World, particularly the Vietnamese and Cuban revolutions?
I'm all for them-passionately. We recognise that our struggle is part of the world struggle against imperia lism. We think that our best contribution to these struggles is to overthrow imperialist domination at nome, simarty it britisn imperialism were to be defeated, say in South Africa, this would greatly assist When Ho Chi Minh died I sent a telegram of condolence to Hanoi; some people in the movement protested at tnis-it was these same people who split from us at our conference last year 5. What do you think is the best way for revolutionaries in Britain to help the struggle in Irelanes To make their own revolution. Short of that they can of course put pressure on their own government, have demonstrations, sit-ins etc. in solidarity with us. But the most important thing is to make their own TEVOTUEIOTE INTERVIEW WITH MALACHY McGURRAN 1. Why. do you think the Unionist government has put a ban on parades?
I hate to give credit to the British Government, but I think that Maudling put nis toot down arter tne expense of the July 12th precautions. With the possi bilitv of usina troops in the British docks, and Britain's economic difficulties, they just felt that they couldn't afford the luxury of letting the Apprentice Boys march.
Another factor is the fact that August, September and October are traditional times for civil rights activity; within this period too you will have the release or bernacette evin. so the ban will ni particularly at civil rights demonstrations during this Time The Republican movement has stated that everyone should be allowed to march provided they do not indulge in sectarian provocation.
Uther factors are of course the economic situation in Northern Ireland itself and the effects of any trouble on employment cre Its up to all radicals and progressives to make it clear that in their opinion the Apprentice Boys and the Orangemen are not the enemy. The real enemy is the bourgeois clique which leads them, or for that matter leads the Ancient Order of Hibernians. It is against these people that we have to organise ?. Do you think the Unionist Government will last much longer?
I'll rephrase that: the present Unionist Government. I don't think Chichester-Clark will last the autumn; his most serious rival is rauikner wno is the most dangerous man in the set-up. He will be the next Prim Minister of a united Unionist Party. Some "liberal"
eements will be driven out into the New Ulster Move ment, leaving a government which would unite the Party by being well to the right of the present one Such a government would go easy in the first stages, t avoid direct rule, but they see their natural allies in power now in Britain, and they will try to hold back change.
But things can never be the same in Northern Ireland again, because elements on both sides won't accept that the old way of running the province snould be re introduced 3. We have seen the changed attitude to the troops in the Falls; is this general throughout Northern Ireland?
Yes, although not with the same intensity as in Belfast, but it is general. 4. Is there any sign that the Protestant workers are beginning to change their attitudes? The turn to Paisley. His support comes from the Protestant workers, plus people like small shor keepers, businessmen and farmers, people who feel oppressed by the monopolies and entry into the E.E.C The Protestants have felt disillusioned ever since the British Army attacked Shankill, and with the giving of minor concessions to the civil rights struggle. They turned to Paisley, who was the nearest expression for their grievances to hand. He fought his election cam paign on a seemingly radical platform, he called for better housing, and denounced the big landlords raisiey woud nave been electec in any unionist con 5. What effect do you think the struggle in the North is having on workers in the 26 Counties? In the main, very little. Because of economic problems, unemployment, low wages, bad housing, etc. the average worker nas more immediate things on nis mind.
Republicans would want them to fight these prob lems and not to get so emotionally involved in the conflict in Northern Ireland as not to fight Fianna Fail Also they are not helped in gaining an understand ing of the situation by the power politics of Fianna Fail, such as the activities of Blaney and Haughey (people who have persecuted Republicans in the past) IT was because blaney and Haugney teared a reaction from the people over the situation in the North that tney took tue acron mev cio, m oreerto nego tnen off.
6. What do you think revolutionaries in Britain can do to help you?
In the first place I would think of what Irish people in Britain can do; they can build a mass movement of Irish immigrants, fighting against the British govern ment for the withdrawal of British troops, and to detend those who are tighting at nome. think I would be important to build links with British workers, to get their assistance too, and here British revolutionaries could help. But even if only the Irish in Britain organised economic resistance, for example strikes they could force the British government's hand. This would also expose Fianna Fail, and bring out the issue as one of exploitation.
In the very long run a revolution in Britain would of course be the greatest help The Irish introduced Christianity into Europe. I would hope that we can play a similar role in the future by starting off the socialist revolution in Western Europe,